With Louise Drew, Partner & Head of Building Communities - in association with Housing LIN
1 October 2020, 9:30AM - 10:15AM
Our population is ever ageing. 12 million people are currently aged 65 and over, and this is set to rise to 20 million in the next 50 years. Yet only 5% of the properties in the UK are specifically designed for people living longer and ageing in place.
1st October 2020 is International Day for Older Persons and to mark this, we are hosting a joint panel discussion with Housing LIN. We will be joined by Jeremy Porteus – Director at Housing LIN, Darren Clarke, Partner at Arcadis and  David Shaw – Head of Growth & Business Development at Sanctuary Supported Living. We will reflect on the later living sector since we last conducted our later living report 18 months ago.
We’ll discuss:
Louise Drew
Partner & Head of Building Communities
Who should attend?
Registered providers, social housing organisations, care home providers and private developers.
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Webinar transcript
(Please note this is auto-generated and un-edited)
Welcome, everybody, to our joint webinar with the Housing Land today. We're looking at the reflections over the last 18 months on changes to the later living sector. I'm joined today by Jeremy Porteous from the Housing Lane. I also have with me, Darren Clarke, who's a partner at arcadius, and David Shaw, who's the Head of Growth, Business Development, Sanctuary Housing. All three panelists have incredible insight into the later living sector, both from a private and a public sector perspective.
0:53
18 months ago, we entered into some research in conjunction with the Housing Lane, where we targeted people in the sector, and it was the largest survey that had ever been done at that time, gathering responses from over 200 key stakeholders. These included local authorities, registered providers, private developers, care operators, businesses in the charity, and voluntary sector, along with many others. We wanted to be a catalyst for change and we were thinking about the later living sector's role in alleviating the current housing crisis, identifying challenges on the road ahead, and setting on a unifying term for the sector. Our survey identified three key areas where change, which required.
1:46
The first was housing and land supply, or lack of it, and affordable homes in places where people wanted to live.
1:56
The second was funding, so a lack of government funding, incentives to bring the later living market back to life. And the third was regulation and legislative changes. Planning naus needed to be changed to boost the later living development.
2:14
What we want to explore today is all the still the right three areas of focus has The last 18 months actually changed anything. And since we've done the research so much has changed in the outside world, and most importantly, the impact of covert on the last six months, and the impact on the later living market as a result, is later living still something that we need to focus on and has to think positive happens that will actually lead this sector to challenge ahead when it's been so painfully slow.
2:53
So I'm going to hand over to Jeremy now to get his views from the housing lense perspective, potentially for him to talk about government policy, what's going on at the moment in relation to age appropriate housing. Is it making things any easier?
3:12
Jeremy.
3:13
Thank you. Thank you, Lu, and I'm really pleased to be here. And it's also for those of you who are joining us, I'm shooting in. It's also the international day of older persons. And therefore, the issues around an aging population are very close to all our hearts. And, in fact, it's part of the DNA of the Housing Lynn, for those of you who don't know me, I'm the Chief Executive of the Housing Learning Improvement Network, or housing land for short, little, explained. We have a long track record of looking at how we can promote and feature what's best in the housing with care sector, across the UK.
3:55
The aging of our population is something that is really rapidly rising. Over the next 20, 30 years, we're going to see a much higher level of older people living in both mainstream housing but also wanting him, desiring a move to more specialists, forms of accommodation, purpose built housing. And I think this session really unlocks some of the findings from the original research, putting a spotlight on retirement living, but also reviewing over the last 18 months. Whether, what the impact has been both in terms of the market generally, but also as a result of the coronavirus some impact. But many older and some vulnerable older people living alone in a variety of forms of accommodation and what we've seen in the last 18 months is that those numbers lifting them out and have increased. We've also seen increasing numbers of people with long term illnesses and disabilities effected by coronavirus in terms of the social exclusion.Â
4:51
The lockdown who's created in terms of social distancing gatherings, as well as how to support people in settings where they have perhaps things like early onset dementia and the value at the time for combination we were talking about in terms of promoting independence, but also dignity and quality of life. And I think this interesting pattern quality is something I hope comes through the course of this session.
5:19
Just before I sort of look at some of the Source Maxwell policy perspectives that are being asked to comment on, the evidence of, the need for this type of combination, is overwhelming. We know from research, for all the Local Government Association, that there's a need for a residential resolution. I think they called for estimating early, for at least 400,000 units of housing for older people bought up by 2030, something that the spotlight report picked up on. What it's identified is an era and needing a better vision of promoting both awareness and attitudes of later living for consumers, but also how we, as professionals and practitioners can engage and collaborate to plan, design, build, and fund a better quality housing. So we're offering a better choice for people in later life.
6:09
So, you know, are we at a point where our policies of guidance or regulations on our funding systems all align? Well? I think in reality we have a patchwork of approaches that's being generated over 30, 40, 50 years, whereby we have incrementally your own legs are living housing through a variety of either funding mechanisms or planning requirements, or indeed to meet social care or health need, which in many cases, are being delivered in a siloed way. So I think we're at a tipping point now, and it's something that a select committee to a local government commented on a couple of years ago. You know, we need to a much more holistic and whole system approach to addressing housing and care needs of an aging population, something that the crappy rapport captured pointed to very good practice.
7:07
So, the national level, just to sort of say that we have currently, not a National Planning Policy framework, it sets out in small reference refinements that in considering planning the size, the type the types of tenure, the diversity of tenure within housing needs with different groups need to be taken into account in local communities.
7:26
And that includes an aging population on people with disabilities, but in practice, I think that's never been fully, sort of adopted. And there are actually, some people would call a postcode lottery, both how planning has to learn to live with that on the ground. The current planning policy, white paper, which is due to conclude today in terms this consultation, is relatively silent, in fact, on demographic impact, actually has no direct reference to the retirement or supported living. So, we have an opportunity, I think, still to influence through the information and the intelligence that we as a group it can provide. And that could be including some of the conversation we have lunch with me for a new use class order, some of the issues around design quality, both in terms of the national design guidance, but also how we ensure that we have greater accessibility of housing.
8:22
And there's a consultation out of the moment, all of that through part of the building regulations and with a minimum of ... arrangements, but also, let's be optimistic and say, You know, What, what should we really be striving for? In terms of investment leavers, some encouraging news recently from Homes England, around the Affordable Housing Program and seeking at least 10% of the program allocated for specialist housing. And we'll come back to that.
8:48
I'm sure, I think, bearing in mind, it is older people's day-to-day. We also need to get stronger voice to the needs and wants of an older consumer who, in many cases, a lack of really good quality choices in their location code, that is probably highlighted that the need for well designed spacious accommodation with good aspects. The ability to get out, but also to socialize, is a really good way of living a good quality life into later life. So that's by last me, by way of introduction. Thanks, Jeremy.
9:27
And so, just, you know, it's quite remarkable, given what has just been said, that we've actually delivered any affordable retirement living properties at all really turning to you, David, from a, from a sanctuary's perspective. Would you like to just share your experience with me, of the strategic needs and demand in the Retirement Living Portfolio that you have over the last 18 months? Has it changed to become more of a demand?
9:56
Yeah, thank you, Mark, Thank you.
9:58
So so from ... perspective, it emulation to demand. I think our view is when, when you get the ingredients right, So, the quality assets, quality, the current version, the living environment, and the link with the wider community demand for Office has never been higher within the retirement portfolio that we lead on. Both as a housing provider, regulated care provider. Demand from two such demand, from client to choose to move into retirement living Village, Where there's a housing drive, enables the choice, we made a time, but also, where clients are choosing to move into a retirement village. That, whether the Drive is candy to let both continue to, to, to be high.
10:52
And we're also continued to see demand and need from adult social care colleagues in the local authorities to value retirement of it.
11:02
Our extra care provision as a strong relationship for impacting emulation to hospital discharge ... services among turn true alternative to traditional residential care provision.
11:20
We're also interested in we're starting to see commissioners invite you to look at models, which include inclusion of complex needs, client groups within a wide genetic, retirement village, mixed client groups, shared use of communal Provision and Community Facilities. Suppose, recently, an extra care without walls, so we can, we can generate additional units of accommodation within the John Leech setting, about an extra village to allow those individuals to benefit as a month required from the communal services in the provision that exist in the retirement living setting.
12:01
That's fascinating, thank you. So if the demand is so high, I'm going to turn next to Darrin. She just wants to talk to us a little bit about your views on MMC, and just generally offsite manufacturing, and how that can actually help to deliver schemes more quickly.
12:19
Thank you, Lu. And certainly we say, NMC, offsite manufacturers know, not the silver bullet that's gonna solve every every problem. But as we've seen in the mainstream, generally, needs housing sector, Many House builders and revert to at least 20% of their overall delivery, been aligned to that and say, and in a reverse at a point where, what's not to like about delivering a product quicker? Perhaps reducing the burden on finance costs for post contract delivery face, increasing the quality links to sustainability. And also dealing with one of the major issues that we, that we must not forget, which is around. You know, Tattooing skill shortages, which could actually intensify as we move through the Brexit challenge particularly. So I think, you know, a lot of it is misunderstood. I think people keep referring back to the, perhaps the fifties and sixties, even still about the system bells that we put in place. You know what?
13:16
I generally say, private sector, public sector operates is generally taken an interest in and say, you know, we've done a number of exercises for raw page links, which take, perhaps, you know, exist and well established. How such that we work with, that traditional architects, over 38, a converse notes and modular. and actually craving actually the concepts of what they're designed proves successful.
13:41
I think one of the key things, and dealing with the Governance Task force had with the remark farmer, one of the things is really focused on is to try and create a programmatic approach to design. So, you know, rather than having lots of different operators, designing individual design palettes, etcetera, we're trying to create an aggregation of design palette. That means that actually one of the key pressure points. and reasons why NMC take isn't so extensive is around the viability challenge in trying to look at with Jason. That cost, cost, price per unit, down to a level, which is at least the same as traditional, is really quite teach-out addressed to focus on, on, moving forward.
14:20
The other I suggest we ought to explore, is around procurement and an actual delivery. Much focusing this particular sector that we say is largely driven through a design and build approach and think to the points that raised early by. By Jeremy, we must make sure we're producing quality products. And I think, what we're, what we're observing, some of our clients, moving water, a construction management type of approach, where whilst there are some inherent risks involved in our clients and adopted that approach versus, actually, it gives them a much better ability to handle the design, the quality, and cost that point. We've just touched on. So, to me, this doesn't need focus. Farms talks about, let's reverse this archaic approach around building everything. Traditionally. Let's focus on the future. Let's look at ways the LMC can provide a pivotal point and this point in history to deliver the capacity and supply is clearly going to be needed over the next 20 30 years.
15:15
Thanks Darren. So I'm going to turn to Jeremy again next. Not everybody will necessarily know what the happy reports are. Jeremy, so it might be worth just, in a very kind of brief way explaining what the happy reports were initially. And then, just coming back to kind of what Darren's point is over, trying to get design as standardized, but not boring, in order to deliver more MMC. How those happy principles fit into that, and have they changed over the last 18 months? If they've been adopted by local authorities, what is the reality of them in terms of day-to-day use to fail?
15:57
Thank you, Linda, and I'm really pleased to refer to those of you who don't know. It was originally commission back in 2008 by the ..., DC, LG, and the Department of Health. Working in partnership with Homes and Community England, to try and inform better design quality, in terms of housing for an aging population, both in terms of how homes in homes and communities agency be allocated and encourage investment in the local supply. But also to think beyond sort of the existing design criteria, as set out in this will approve documents. And they brought together a panel of experts chaired by law best, eminent crossbencher in the houses of Parliament who previously were both the National Housing Federation but also the Joseph Rowntree Foundation.
16:49
Brought together some leading thinkers, architects with policy makers and operators to think, what are the key design characteristics that would most benefit an aging population? And I think the sort of the common language that's being developed as well, how can we become more care ready, to think about the quality of the accommodation, in terms of housing management, in terms of design, the bill, and the points raised. But also, can we anticipate what are the key things that might enable people to live a healthier longer in their home? We have the right design. For the things around access, through things around circulation, things around storage, space, things around, the adoption and utilization of technology, all became part of a suite of 10 design principles that have sort of grown over the last 10 years. In fact, we just had the 10th anniversary of the original happier pool to look at different aspects about our aging society.
17:46
Those 10 years, we've had 3 or 4 more reports. one, looking at what the barriers to adoption of the beam, Others, looking at particular aspects. Like, implications in rural communities, and trying to look at cost effectiveness, will delivering housing for an aging population and more non urban settings, and happy sort of findings, demonstrate those significant value, both in terms of the quality of life outcomes, but also the way the service can be configured. But perhaps a little bit like what David was describing, sort of extra care with our rule, becoming very effective community hubs. So, they provide a really important location for both delivering planned care and support for people who have a health and social can aid, but also offer a real good lifestyle choice for people who do people. Do. you want to make a purchase or rent?
18:39
It sat up, and I said, you ask questions as you know how successful?
18:44
Because the speed, I think it's been a slow learner, but over the last 4 or 5 years, we've seen this rapid adoption of the principles. one of the things, perhaps the most obvious to account for that. Second designed, the wards run by the housing design. Design for homes in the house national housing design awards. Though I'm privileged to be a judge of those, are what I've witnessed over the last 4 or 5 years. Of the 16 categories, there's one for happy and it attracts nearly 30% of all the applications. So, again, there is a growing desire, but this is a set of principles, is not yet set out in the design codes or in building regulation. And I think we saw a little bit later go to go to, in order to adopt them fully. You may not be aware, this week is also National Inclusion conclusion week, and I think this happy is about Aging. It's not about older people.
19:44
Specifically, And therefore, I do think that we can think differently about design. Not just for older people who actually, of all ages, bassline health unhappy might have a bit of longevity itself?
19:55
Yeah, and of course, one of the things that we've heard so much about over the last six months has been about multi-generational housing housing. And so, that, that is, that's very J. OK, well, we're going to move on to the second part of the webinar. And so another one of the key points that came out of the research was connected to funding and sustainability developments. And also, we're going to add in their cave it because, obviously, that's a topic that's close to our lips all of the time. And current, coming to Daron.
20:27
What I find that it's do you think has become available possibly over the last 18 minutes? And does this increased or decreased enabling providers to actually deliver these sorts of accommodation?
20:39
I TLA, as Jeremy has already touched on, the recent governments announcements, to 12 billion, sort of house building program, they've really look to accelerate, that, does include provisions for increased, shared ownership. So, we just sort of working with a number of clients at the moment to perhaps explore the multi-tiered approach. We've got the emergence around the Product Entity Model. We were established in some really good lessons from some of the investors that we work with across the bill to rented sector.
21:04
It will say, later Living as a real growth market for them, and perhaps taking a much more longer term view on, on, on, on projects that they've done in the past, as we say, Other sectors, such as the hospitality, hotel, purpose built, student accommodation, market, started, to sort of come into question, whether they, so, given the growth in this market, given the lack of supply, there's plenty clearly to investors that we say, The other areas that we're looking at, you know, we touched on multi tenancy there. But we're also looking at the high Street. So, you've seen recent announcement from the highest, that could lead to live, in housing, we care models, crest potential solution. Not in isolation, but part of a new place making setting within towns and cities.
21:49
Today, to this point, quite a long time, what we really need is really good access to, I mean, it tastes good access to infrastructure, good access to transport. So many of those established infrastructure components are already in place within within the towns and cities. These, are, we seeing increased focuses, is, given the drive around climate change. We've seen a lot of investors really exploring and put an investment strategy around the sustainability agenda was say much more focused around social impact agenda. We will focus around making sure that, for the long term, Assets that have been retained, that is much more focused on the operational costs. And making sure that data with fuel poverty and aspects, such as that, as people grow into the older age rarely. Despite the sort of market challenges, we all say land value solid enough, particularly high. So, you know, we do need to create an attractive market when land values against the traditional house building market. You know, holding up and making it sometimes quite difficult to compete for land, against the sort of big.
22:50
The big house building companies where they asked, I suppose what was slightly disappointed with the announcement that the autumn statement was that, you know, we were kind of hoping for more money to be pumped into the supportive housing sector. Particularly. It's really recover a position that has been over the last few years with the ..., the red caps and various other constraints that many of our audit clients that I've been trying to deliver. much more improved scale. So, you know, very much appetite by the investors to grow into this market, given the opportunity exists for them.
23:25
Thanks, Thanks, Darn. And so, David, briefly, because we were running out of time here. The topics are endless. And from your perspective, just to an operational perspective, how will you ensure the long-term delivery and sustainability and high quality service of the schemes that you have?
23:48
Thanks.
23:49
So as an RP aside, if we look at the overall delivery of care provision within our retirement living portfolio at sanctuary, we are starting to see a strong, strong move to be negotiation Partnering model alongside social CA commissioners, as opposed to traditional, tend to model. This meets our principle of choosing not to join the ranks to the bottom, in terms of terms, conditions, quality of care, and price point products, or social provision. And we do this a number of ways. We do this by offering an open book approach to commissioners, to share the potential efficiency between a housing with joint delivery model. And by doing so, we can create stability, continuity of care, and achieve the quotes that we aspire to do within our portfolio.
24:41
That's allowed us over the last 18 months to maintain a 100% success rate with achieving good to understand and in the eyes of CQC inspections across everything we do in the retirement Living Portfolio.
24:54
The risk, though, the risk for all is that if commissioners from Adult Social Care on Health continue to focus solely on statutory regulatory CQC provision, it takes away the focus from well-being from inclusion from social isolation that we believe the Retirement Living Portfolio is designed to deliver at the heart of limited.
25:19
That's obviously reason why gifts, you know, getting these discussions out into the public domain are so important, because I don't think there's enough of that done. So just coming on to the topic of cave it then.
25:31
Do you think that I'm gonna open this up to all three of the eight, but perhaps from David's perspective initially from an operational side of things, do you feel that you've been distracted with the media issues, such as looking at it after kind of tenants health and their well-being? Or do you feel that it's becoming more prevalent to your agenda to deliver more and more of this sector style accommodation or is it?
26:02
Thank you, so, I suppose early on, probably before March into pandemic period, we started to recognize increases in vacancy levels across the return of the portfolio. And a number of reasons and precious, both from reductions and restrictions and stuffing, compliment to, to emergency powers only focus of commissioners on residential care provision, understandably, during that period of pandemic and lead to nearly a doubling of our vacancy rates across the portfolio. At the same time, we also recognize that client chose not to move into a shared environment, and every time, the portfolio for a short period of time, I think, we're really pleased to say, really pleased to say that we're now give or take, business as usual. We have seen the demand, both from a housing, and cannot Climb decision, moved back into the sector.
26:58
We're now a stable service across everything we do within, within Sentry.
27:06
The financial, the financial impact felt by within the retirement portfolio.
27:13
It's the part of our portfolio, it's been least supported by Central government, definitely related to cope with when I compared it to adult social care, disability services, mental health, homelessness, young people leaving. It's certainly the retirement living portfolio remains totally benefit from The Cove, which sustainability from Central Government, and also the infection control Fund.
27:40
And that's something that we are now starting to move into donut conversation with commissioners, to make sure that we can continue to deliver sustainable product into the long term.
27:50
Interesting, Jeremy, if you got a view, don't think that's right when the focus, I think international level was very much in terms of the the real seal, that national care for one another, so offshore, in terms of the care home industry. And, thankfully, the impact of code is on retirement living, per se is not how does not have been a significant nothing matches polity due to a number of factors. one is the design of many of the schemes where there's independent living. Somebody's own front to do the early advice adopted by many operators around the use of communal space, as well as looking at delivering meals or social services, laundry, and others in remotely, and the ability to protect and create ways of managing infection in infection control. But notwithstanding that, as David says, costs have gone up and I think we need to make sure that the operators are able to get more support through the local resilience.
28:53
Especially for our further away into the coming down. This autumn, I know that conversation to the Housing Lynn has on a regular basis with government ...
29:03
see shows are there is a now and understanding that actually X return, the regulator living needs to be referenced in the guidance. And the latest guidance does have a passing reference to it. We need a little bit more clarity on that, but it's very helpful.
29:23
Darren have your view?
29:25
I think the closing points for me would be, you know, there's a temptation through what we've learned through the pandemic to try and increase spaces to create much bigger areas for people to socialize, et cetera. But I'm not quite sure whether that's actually the answer. I think we've been actively working with a number of clients about active and passive solutions using tech to enable the existing facilities to function is specified as Jeremy points out and David's going to be dealing with its current pandemic. But also we need to make sure we've got Brazilians built-in for future pandemics of this type in the future. So again, working very closely with designers to not necessarily increase space, which then could erode net to gross ratios, which could then Craig schemes even more valuable than we've seen before. So using the space this, this already designed an existing premises and making them smarter, so I think in a simple functions around deliveries and those sorts of things, making sure that those are handled correctly to avoid that.
30:21
That sort of reduce that human contact Really. I mean, we've published a number of God and God's ourselves around designing for code base, which is particularly focuses around design into hygiene, which I think it's become much more prevalent, and this last six months, then they'll probably heard for the last 25 years of work in lieu.
30:40
Yeah, Darnold mandar it first.
30:46
OK, I'm going to move us on then. to the topic, the final topic of regulation and legislation. Just turning to planning, obviously, things in many respects don't seem much clearer over the last 18 months, still the confusion over Class C, two, C three Classes. So, Darren, do you want to give me your view over whether or not you think much has changed over the last 18 months in terms of being able to deliver the schemes and the problems with planning?
31:20
I think from what I've seen, where there's an awful lot of lobbying that's clearly going on between the housing in our code and some of the other main bodies and ourselves as professionals and the members of both those organizations, really, but nothing in our view, is changed substantially enough. I mean, clearly we need to we need to move the dial on if we're going to meet the needs of the aging population ready. So something needs to change with that system, I suppose. What was quite disappointing through the draft funding Bill papers come through is actually not. The focus has been made to determine a very clearer, much clearer strategy around yeast class. But also to look at the focus of an allocation of sites. And I think we talked to most of our public and private operator clients. They all say the same thing, the one, we want better access to land, we can increase the pace of sky, we've got investors, we got funded, is willing to, you know, to move into this market, even to a greater extent.
32:14
To fill that void is that's going on. And what we have seen to try and make that kinda stop gap at the moment, some really good joint venture, so things have cause and effect. For some of our clients to working, close with some of the house vote is, for instance, through joint ventures.
32:30
No House builders might benefit by perhaps in the current climate with reduced sales rights. And in the near future, OK, that's been very big, pent, up demand. What happens is we come out of the furlough schemes, various government incentives to move forward. We obviously see lots of job losses. So how's that going to impact on House Builders performance over the next 12, 18 months? Or? so? one of the solutions could be to maintain land value by working in partnership through a joint venture with with some of the uprights clients, to preserve the value for both the house. But also, what we hear from our clients on a daily basis, provide more access to them will increase the pace of deliberate.
33:08
Thank you. Jeremy splits your views, I know you have lots of discussions about planning. And delivery Point is really crucial part of our land. I think the other things around the type of intelligence that's out there to help make informed decisions, both for planning authorities, but also for people in developing out there. So, again, the White Paper talks about having better datasets and the likes. It doesn't talk about what types of datasets, but we need to make sure that there is much more accurate descriptions around both the needs of local populations, in terms of the housing preferences, both in terms of age, disability that I touched on earlier, but also, future demand for the next 15, 20 years. So, again, nothing armed with better evidence, we can help grow.
33:53
both, planning colleagues, awareness around, aging, per se, but also think about how that unlocks the ability to mainland insights available. And perhaps we should look at some of the lessons from Europe. We've got sort of things like, the 15 minutes, circular city being developed. We've got things like zoning. Again, if we're looking at certain parcels of land, is there a way that we can see about those two actual partnership where they can be allocated for age friendly approaches? Which, by definition, might also enable nauseam, with an extra care to be developed on those sites, or more happy, styled accommodation where we can look at our career readiness in the longer term.
34:36
Thanks. That's brilliant. So I'm just looking now at kind of the stamp duty issue. one of the things that we concluded, and I know as a conclusion in the Happy three report, Jeremy, that you and I were involved in, is the removal of the barrier of stamp duty to allow people to right size. We're currently in a situation where there is a stamp duty holiday. And I know, just from a personal perspective, in terms of the volume of transactional work that I've got on at the moment, that, that has seriously improve. The number of transactions that are being done in terms of house moves. Do we feel that reducing stamp duty is now the opportune moment for the Retirement Living sector to actually get people to want to move into this sort of housing stock can out of the 3 and 4 bed family homes.
35:30
Put that out to all of you, because it's more kind of a personal feel than, than a professional.
35:40
Want me to kick off on I think those types of help to move packages are crucial if we.
35:47
Going to stimulate something over the next 6, 12, 18 months. So, we look at the crystal ball, but looking at 18 months back. But 18 months forward, then yeah. So I think it helped to move package. Which is not necessarily just the first time buyer could actually related to lifestyle would be very beneficial. Research that came out in a very early happy report showed that for every house sale of somebody downsizing, rightsizing, purpose built, retirement, living community, it freed up three family size houses in those that in that locality. So I think there's a wider housing market here that issue. And we need to think some of those aspects as well as other potential incentives through the tax system. And others. And just before I finish, the one other thing is to bear in mind that we are waiting for a long awaited, social care Green Paper, then maybe aspects and learn about, how do we pay for old age, and how we look at different types of equity release models to fundamentally support that?
36:47
Again, there's issues around planning and also the funding of all social care and health that might come more aligned in the next 18 months.
36:56
I would echo that layout.
36:58
Just to add to that, I think you got to sort of top hat into the housing market, I think there's not enough focus around stimulating, that that part as well as that kind of helped devise gains that we've traditionally seen over the last few years, really. So, you know, for me, it's about freeing up the latent capacities that exist in many of the family, Family homes that Jeremy talked about a minute ago. But, essentially, if you're planning your future future years in retirement or, or care, actually to reduce one of the burdens, to the family, around, together, after the long-term asset value in the States, actually to have a tax incentive. Surely has got to be a driver, not saying that the only submit factors Jeremy points out, but clearly when you add those two things, doctor Bordon isolation, improvements in mental health, well-being, etcetera. You know feeling safe and secure. They are some of the main drivers for creating peoples that platform to move into, into, into retirement uncertainty, like housing with with care.
37:55
So, for me, it's got to be part of the solution, going to solve the how whole housing crisis not just focus on the lower end of the ladder.
38:06
David, I know this this question kind of centers very much on home ownership and not just rental accommodation, but what's your view on it?
38:15
Yeah, I mean, I would agree entirely with Jeremy Donovan if we look at the scarce resources of social housing and affordable housing in the community.
38:25
Anything that we can do to generate effective, move on, and move into a new build retirement living portfolio. If that has the consequence, the positives of freeing up, overcrowding accommodation firmly certain mostly provision single occupants who may well not be priority need for local authorities perspective. And anything that frees up the high value social housing provision to make best use of it is a huge gain within the community.
38:56
Yeah. No, Thank you.
38:59
OK, so it's left to me to kind of close the session, so thank you for listening to what we've been discussing. There's a lot involved. It feels very much that the last 18 months, there has been some movement. It's still really slow and for those of us that actually work in the sector sometimes fails quite painfully slow I'm sure all of us will agree with that. And so what's next, so, at the moment Shakespeare Martineau, again, along with Jeremy Porteous and a number of other providers are working on setting up a steering group. The prime focus, if that group, is to basically look at what Retirement Living actually is. So we haven't spoken about this today. But just, one of the things that picked they picked up in our report was, it's all in the name.
39:55
So we've got a situation where retirement live thing has got numerous, different names, independent, living, later, living in this country. We don't actually have a focus on what it actually is.
40:07
And the steering group is going to look at how we can get cation really to people in the public as to what actually it isn't. It's not just care homes which is where there can be a real confusion. So, look out for that. There's going to be some research done on that. And then the next thing that we're planning is we have a webinar, which includes David Burke, back myself, and Jeremy again entitled, Building For Life: Planning for a Happy Life which is on the 10th of November 9 30.
40:48
And then finally, I'm just going to move on to Jeremy. Very briefly, He's just going to talk a little bit about the housing lane conference that is coming up over the course of the next couple of weeks.
41:02
Thanks, Lu, and for many of you who know the. and we had to pull our annual conference back in March because it was the week that really took old six months on where now planning or virtual conference which will take place actually on the week commencing the sentence to the 11th of December. And working with partners, We're looking at some of the findings from the research about what really is a link to life move and what, how can you best describe that. And that's gonna be very much focused on the series of Showcase events during the course of that we, based on something what we've termed happy hours. It's a short way of celebrating Walker Happy Design principles of, but also getting enabling people to come together to further discuss and build on this exon Polish Legal team here. So we will keep you posted on that as well.
41:55
Thank you. OK, well, I must now just thank all my panelists, David, Darren and Jeremy, thank you so much for your time to help us to deliver this webinar, and look forward to seeing you all say, thank you.
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